February
16
2007
RIP: The Chief
10:08 am —
So it looks like Chief Illiniwek will soon be dancing his last fake Indian dance. I blame Colbert.
So it looks like Chief Illiniwek will soon be dancing his last fake Indian dance. I blame Colbert.
February 16th, 2007 at 10:19 am
Go Colbert!
February 16th, 2007 at 11:44 am
I can’t believe it’s finally happening.
This is awesome news.
February 16th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
No it isn’t awesome news. Not on the basis of being pro or anti Chief. It’s horrible news because one man arrogantly and brazenly made a decision based primarily on the financial considerations of what he felt the Chief was costing the athletic department, screw Eppley. If the Chief was to be retired it should be done but the University body after due dilligence is done to the issue. NOT because a guy with an ego, on a power trip made cash King. We’ve all lost for losing Chief this way. Pro Chief or Anti Chief we’re all getting hosed right now.
February 16th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
Ummm, Tom, I don’t know your definition of due dilligence, but this debate has been going on for more than 20 years now. That would suggest that there were few new facts to discover. The time and energy spent on this issue has cost you and all students — in dollars (administrators’ time costs money), diversion from academic issues and in moral standing. If the chairman of the board finally stepped up and made a decision to do the right thing — or even to just end the waste — he should be congratulated, not condemned.
February 16th, 2007 at 5:01 pm
Really, Eric? I blame idiot liberals like you.
February 16th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
The bell tolled for Chief Illiniwek today. They just announced the University Board’s decision to “retire” Chief Illiniwek. His last dance will be next week. How utterly sad.
At this moment, I am so disgusted with the University’s failure to devise and pursue relentlessly a strategy to preserve Chief Illiniwek as a proud and positive symbol that I can’t see straight. The board’s display of spinelessness is complete and unrivaled. Their lack of real leadership is despicable.
The NCAA’s ultimatum that the U of I eliminate Chief Illiniwek or be ineligible to host NCAA championship events was arbitrary and inequitable to say the least - does anyone really believe Florida State’s spear-chucking chief, tomahawk chop and war-cry is okay but Chief Illiniwek is a racist mascot? It looks like the NCAA does. Florida State may have bought off the Seminole tribe, but if Chief Illiniwek’s dance is generically offensive to Native Americans, they must be truly mortified by the FSU routine. Maybe the NCAA has another motive for killing Chief Illiniwek.
I guess it’s the sheer ignorance of those who have now succeeded in turning our proud symbol, Chief Illiniwek, into a defeated racist mascot that is most astounding to me. These people likely see themselves as heroes who have somehow preserved the dignity of Native Americans, and I respect their intentions in that regard insofar as those intentions are genuine. However, I suspect that for at least some of the more vocal of these people it’s more about forcing their will on someone else than it is about anything altruistic. It seems to me that some people just get their kicks out of continually looking for things they can claim to be offended by and then shrieking and hollering until they have destroyed those things. Wouldn’t it be better to look for the positives in things and try to build on those positives?
It seems to me that anyone who is genuinely interested in promoting the heritage and welfare of Native Americans would take the time to learn about the real meaning and all of the traditions of Chief Illiniwek. For one thing, I know that one of Chief Illiniwek’s long-time activities has been to visit schools and events to give talks to educate people about the Native American heritage in “Illinois” in a way that promotes respect for that heritage. By retiring Chief Illiniwek, we have lost forever a tremendously positive and dignified educational vehicle for Native Americans.
It is my understanding that there have been no known remaining descendants of the Illini confederation of tribes for centuries. Who now will pass on their history, both the proud and the bitter, to future generations?
For what or whom will the bell toll next?
As for me, right now I don’t care if I ever attend another Illinois or NCAA event, and I don’t plan to continue my previously uninterrupted string of annual scholarship contributions to the U of I. I’m certain that these feelings are not unique to me, but I needed to get this off my chest.
February 16th, 2007 at 11:03 pm
Eppley wouldn’t want to be confused by any facts. The LAST thing this Board wanted to hear was facts.
This decision was made by bullying. A small, vocal minority bullied the issue to the forefront, then refused to listen to reason until it got what it wanted. My kids used to do the same thing, but I forgave them, since they were only two years old at the time.
Now the only thing left for the Board is to decide which spineless invertebrate will best represent the University of Illinois as a mascot.
“Being politically correct means always having to say you’re sorry.”
- Charles Osgood
February 17th, 2007 at 11:00 am
RegularGuy- All the people who have said they are against the chief have been bullied. When someone starts a facebook group called, “If you get rid of the chief I’ll become a racist”, the chief has lead to too divisive of an environment.
How can anyone defend a white person dressing up as a Native American? The Native American tribes that exist in Illinois have said they are offended by the dance and mascot, symbol, or whatever. They also feel that the dance is NOT a fancy dance.
I have yet to hear any facts about why the chief should be kept, except that is a tradition and makes people feel good.
Tradition is not a good reason to keep ANYTHING. For example, the KKK intimidating black people is tradition. Should we allow them to keep that, for the sake of tradition?
February 17th, 2007 at 11:46 am
Alumnus Joe –
If your loyalty to the U of I is only “Chief deep” then you were never a genuine supporter of the university in the first place. Thus, the loss of your support will not be missed.
February 17th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
Joel — How does dressing a guy up like a Sioux Indian “honor and respect” the memory of the Illini, who were nothing like the Sioiux and were in fact wiped out by a confederation of Plain Indians that included the Sioux? You “honor and respect” the Illini by dressing some college kid up like their mortal enemy? What an ignorant hypocrisy.
February 17th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
Kathleen - Everyone has a right to be free from racial discrimination. We have laws that protect that right for all of us.
But there is no law anywhere that guarantees you (or anyone else) the right to never be offended.
Yet that’s what the shrill minority of anti-Chief zealots have done. They’ve stretched, distorted and perverted our anti-discrimination rights into some new right to ‘never be offended’ and the Board of Trustees have happily embraced this new ‘Right Of The Hypersensitive Minority.’
As for your comment about the Illinois Native American tribes, be careful who you quote. Most of the data I’ve seen doesn’t support your position. It is abundantly clear to me that the noise came from a relatively small minority. Once again, I will reiterate that while we all have a right to be free from racial discrimination, there is no corollary right to be free from ever being offended. Your KKK analogy is grossly misplaced. Chief Illiniwek bears no resemblance to the horrors of the KKK - they are an unfortunate legacy of our country, but nobody calls them a ‘tradition.’
Traditions do die off - when was the last time you saw a man stand because a woman entered the room? This wasn’t a case of a tradition becoming an anachronism. This was a pagan sacrifice on the altar of Political Correctness.
When I graduated from the U of I, they played ‘Pomp and Circumstance.’ Why? Because it’s a tradition at commencement ceremonies. It would have been . . . well . . . weird to have them play anything else. Our traditions are how we pass our culture on to the future generations.
February 17th, 2007 at 6:28 pm
My point was that the tradition is not a reason to keep something. Tradition is fine if it’s not damaging so many people.
How can anyone defend allowing a white person to “dress up” as a native american? After all, most people would be up in arms if a black face was our mascot. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, google image it.
At this point and time, the tribe most closely related to the Illini is against the Chief:
Ron Froman was later elected Chief, by which time his views on the Chief Illiniwek mascot changed. His views changed following meetings with American Indian students attending the University. In April 2000, the tribal council, with Chief Froman’s support, passed by the margin of 3 to 2 a resolution requesting “the leadership of the University of Illinois to recognize the demeaning nature of the characterization of Chief Illiniwek, and cease use of this mascots [sic]”. Froman stated “I don’t know what the origination was, or what the reason was for the university to create Chief Illiniwek. I don’t think it was to honor us, because, hell, they ran our (butts) out of Illinois.” This puts Chief Illiniwek in a position different from that of the mascots of other schools such as Florida State University, whose Native American mascots are not opposed by the leadership of the corresponding tribes. In 2005, a new Chief, John P. Froman, when asked his position by the NCAA, indicated that “the Chief was not representative of our tribe and culture, mainly because the costume is Sioux”] In 2006, in response to a widely published column by journalist George Will in support of the mascot’s use, he wrote a letter reiterating the Peoria Tribe’s opposition to the mascot and decrying that the “University of Illinois has ignored the tribe’s request for nearly five years.”…. (Taken from Wikipedia)
Moreover, the vast majority of the faculty at U of I are against the Chief.
If you really believe tradition is how we pass on our culture, I suggest you read an article called “Invented Traditions.” Most traditions have no roots in the past whatsoever and are a recent creation. Moreover, how can we pass on our culture effectively when we marginalize other cultures?
February 17th, 2007 at 9:43 pm
I’m not an opera buff, by any means, but I have seen at least two performances of Gilbert & Sullivan’s, ‘The Mikado.’ In case you don’t know, the opera, written in the 1880s, is set in ancient feudal Japan.
I know that all of the actors and actresses who played those parts were not Japanese. Most were Caucasian and a few were Asian. Chinese, I think. Do all the actors in ‘A Streetcar Named Desire’ have to be from the Deep South? And how do we handle staging Shakespeare’s ‘Julius Caesar’? Should we cast only Brits, because Shakespeare was British, or do we cast only Italians from Rome, since Sicilians and Tuscans aren’t true ‘Romans’? Should I be offended because Hugh Laurie speaks without his native British accent in the TV series ‘House’, which is set in an American hospital?
If we follow your anti-Chief logic, any Mikado performance that doesn’t feature an all-Japanese cast would be ‘hostile and abusive’ to Japanese. And don’t try to cast Asians in those roles because the cast must be authentic Japanese, otherwise, it’s just ‘a bunch of Asians “dressed up” as Japanese. Are you arguing that Japanese people don’t deserve the ‘ethnic purity’ you insist on for Chief Illiniwek? Fact is, ‘white guys’ in performances dress up as everything from Native Americans to Klingons.
Wikipedia, by the way, is a reference work written by regular folks like you and me. The information isn’t vetted by knowledgeable authorities. Many schools don’t allow students to cite Wikipedia as an authoritative source. I’ve sent more than a few corrections to Wikipedia entries. You’re in college now, you can do better than that.
I freely admit that the clothes the current Chief wears came from a member of the Oglala Sioux tribe, and doesn’t necessarily reflect the Native Americans who once inhabited this area. As for the feelings and sensitivities of Native Americans, I’ll take more comfort in the national surveys which show that more than three-fourths of Native Americans are either pleased with the Chief’s portrayal, or indifferent to it. Either way, it’s that twenty percent minority who are making all the noise. And it’s not a discrimination complaint - they are whining because they are OFFENDED. Sorry, but there is no legal right that any of us have to never be offended.
As for what Ron Froman knows, or more correctly, doesn’t know, shouldn’t be a source of guidance. It sounds, from his comments, that he almost revels in his own ignorance. I can honestly say that I don’t know everything about everything, but I don’t point to it as a source of pride. And I’ll make a sincere effort to educate myself when I find out that I don’t know something.
The Seminole Tribe of Florida is very actively running a half dozen gambling casino throughout Florida, and the last thing as good businessmen they want to do is tick off all those FSU alums who come to drop coins in their slot machines. Do NOT point to the Seminoles as an example of nobility. They are protecting their own business interests and little else. That same Seminole Tribe tried to sue the State of Florida and then-governor Lawton Chiles for not granting them free rein to open casinos throughout the state. Until statewide Seminole casinos were opened in the mid-1990s, FSU was under heavy attack by Seminole activists who protested the school’s use of Osceola and his horse, Renegade. Since then, huge profits from their casinos have quieted their earlier outrage.
I don’t see Chief Illiniwek ‘marginalizing’ any culture. I do see the cartoonish characters used by the Cleveland Indians and the Atlanta Braves as doing so. You’ve applied a broad brush with your criticism.
I grant you that Hallmark is doing their very best to create new holidays and traditions, but I think the very definition of the word ‘tradition’ which says, “. . . an inherited pattern of thought or action” sounds to me like it came from . . . the past.
February 17th, 2007 at 10:13 pm
t allen praed…questioning loyalty as if you invented it, you say his was only “Chief deep” and he was never a genuine supporter of the university…please tell me what makes for a genuine supporter.
I am also feeling a little sick, maybe it’s more sadness when you cry…I grew up in Illinois and graduated in ‘91…I worked for an Indian (just in case you are ignorant enough to correct my use of Indian, they often use the term, maybe you’d correct them, help ‘em get politically correct) tribe for over 3 years and I’d guess that most of the opinionated folks involved with this issue are very ignorant in regards to Indians and could really care less what any Native American thinks or how they live in their country. I think about a night in 2005, I was travelling through McDermitt, NV, and I saw a high school age Indian boy wearing a Chief hat, I asked if he liked the Fighting Illini and he said Yeah, I like ‘em…I guess that unimportant dark haired boy was just too ignorant to see all the harm that Chief symbal was doing?
Joel…not that it is easy, but I am also having a hard time figuring out how I will continue to be a supporter of the U of I, but I’ll always love the school.
February 19th, 2007 at 1:38 pm
I’m offended by Indian Casinos, I’m offended by Political Correctness run amoke, I’m offended by racebating scaremongers, I’m offended by the “victim class” that always wants something at everyone else’s expense.
What are the “Fighting Illini” now without the Chief as a symbol? Hmmm….not much. All you that are so concerned about an Indian symbol are nothing but a bunch of phonies…fakes!! If Indian symbols and words can’t be used…then the name “Illinois” should be changed. Then we could call it “Utopia.”
February 19th, 2007 at 8:19 pm
I agree with all the other liberals who have posted on this website. We should BAN anything that is offensive. The next stop is eliminating “fighting and “irish” from Notre Dame since it deonates a belligerent ethnic group.
Likewise, on behalf of PETA, I think we should get rid of anything that involves an animal because it casts these beings in a negative light. For example, let’s get rid of Bevo at the University of Texas and the Gators at the University of Florida.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:54 pm
Don’t forget to get rid of the Miami Hurricanes or the Iowa State Cyclones. We can’t be offending people who’ve lost everything they own to a natural disaster.
February 21st, 2007 at 7:39 pm
I am a pro-choice, Prius driving, pet owning, Bush coup d’etat disgusted alum, i.e. a “liberal,” who thinks this was a tragedy. I loved watching the Chief, who was not a “mascot” and who was used by both the corporate interests running the U of I and the misguided chief loathers. This was an opportunity lost to make the Chief authentic and get rid of the corporate logo instituted in 1990 that started this anti-Chief frenzy to begin with. Hail to the old Chief!
March 12th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
If you have actually attended a University of Illinois event (which i doubt most of you whiners actually have) and find anything about the Chief to be in the spirit of humiliating or mocking native american heritage, you are a moron and your life must be horribly fragile and boring. Why don’t you all do us true Illini a favor and go to Stanford where you can celebrate your tree mascot at the sporting events that you don’t attend.
March 12th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
I think it’t time we stop the true injustice at this University. It’s not the Chief, it’s 20k a year to learn journalism??? It’s just wrong, any idiot with a laptop and cable access for Bill Maher or Jon Stewart propaganda can publish their crappy regurgitated opinion under the guise of unbiased fact (eric naing). Or how about the same price for a poli-sci degree??? I mean you could get a degree in business or finance or history and still get all the crappy liberal opinions that you learn in poli-sci pumped into your head in this school. Please help stop the true injustice!!!