February
16
2007
The Mother of all Chief Threads
1:15 am —
It’s happening. Tomorrow. What goes down in the next 24 hours will affect the University forever. Post your thoughts. Do your best to keep it civil.
It’s happening. Tomorrow. What goes down in the next 24 hours will affect the University forever. Post your thoughts. Do your best to keep it civil.
February 16th, 2007 at 1:58 am
It’s sad that the tradition comes to an end like this. The plain fact of the matter is that the University decided to collapse under the pressure of a few who managed to yell louder than the many. It’s tyrannical rule by the minority, and an affront to democratic ideals of majoritarianism. This should have been settled by referrendum, but was instead authoritatively quashed by old business men and Emil Whateverhisnameis.
In any case, I guess I’ll start filing my lawsuit against Notre Dame for their “hostile and abusive” mascot, as well as USC’s Trojan, MSU’s Spartan, the Washington Redskins, Cleaveland Indians, Florida Seminoles, Purdue’s Boilermaker (an obvious attack on the working class), and the New York Yankee (a derogatory term for an American, if I’ve ever heard one). Where does it end?
February 16th, 2007 at 4:31 am
A lot of people (white) keep asking, “when will it end?” “whos going to be next to go in this craxy pc world?” The point is that this is not the end, only the beginning, and people still feel it is proper to disrespect people all in the name of “honor” and “tradition” then we still have a battle. This forces the UI administration to admit there is an overall problem on campus when it comes to racism; by getting rid of the so called chief they are taking a step to not look like hypocrites when they talk about “tolerance” “diversity.” No the chief will not resolve the issues on campus, it will not ease the tension; in fact I expect most people (white) to dig in their heels even more to try and halt the inevitable.
February 16th, 2007 at 7:57 am
I would just like to point out “Disappointed’s” error, it is the Florida STATE Seminoltes. The Florida team is the Florida GATORS who happen to be the reigning NCAA champion in Football and Basketball. You better ask somebody….
February 16th, 2007 at 7:59 am
Well the people [non Indian] have gotten rid of the Chief what next?? Maybe change the name of the State and many of the cities and towns? It pretty sad that the few make policy for the majority. I will continue to support the Chief and wear my Chief apparel and dare some one to try to take it off me. Just wait and see what happens when the Grant in Aid money stops coming in. The Uof I will now be known as “The FRIGHTENED ILLINI” The Board of Trustees is GUTLESS!!!!!!
February 16th, 2007 at 8:33 am
While it hurts me to do this, because I love the University of Illinois and want to support it, I will cancel my Alumni Association membership and future donations as a show of my distaste with this decision if the Chief is removed.
Yes, I am only one alumnus, but I’m sure there are many, many like-minded fellow alumni.
Maybe I will be able to support a Bring Back The Chief fund instead??
February 16th, 2007 at 8:48 am
Kevin Knazze…I find it a bit ironic that you bring ‘tolerance and diversity’ into this conversation. Tolerance means accepting ALL points of view; diversity means MANY points of view treated with equal respect. You can not increase diversity by respecting the opinion of only one group.
Btw, the correct term is ‘European American’…not white.
February 16th, 2007 at 8:49 am
As an alumni, I am deeply hurt that the Chief may be retired forever. I cannot believe how protestors act towards U of I’s symbol. It is a symbol I have ALWAYS respected. I am not racist, and I do not appreciate anyone that calls me racist just because I support the Chief. He is a beloved, traditional symbol who UNITES the crowd at sporting events. Everyone wraps their arms around each other when they all sing “Hail to the Orange.” There is nothing more uniting than this. It is sad. Just sad. I will never forget this decision and will forever hold the Chief in my heart, but not the university for retiring him. It will be very hard to respect the University after the Chief’s retirement.
February 16th, 2007 at 10:13 am
Chief Illiniwek DEAD!!! Finally I can graduate from Illinois peacefully.
February 16th, 2007 at 11:04 am
Terribly sorry, it is the Florida State team. It was 2 when I wrote that.
February 16th, 2007 at 11:07 am
For those who claim that they will no longer donate to the U of I because of the Chief decision today–all I can say is: You’re not a true fan of the U of I and your money is neither needed nor welcome. Similar claims were once made against Stanford and Dartmouth when they dropped their Indian mascot. And these threats had no effect whatsoever.
February 16th, 2007 at 11:50 am
Kevin Knazze, you and your horrible typing skills need to STFU. Take your argument back to your anti-”(white)”, closed-minded and ignorant audience, because we paranthetical “(white)” people could care less what you “think” (think in quotes because it’s doubtful that you actually do!).
February 16th, 2007 at 6:55 pm
I like how the only way you can poke at me is throuqh my typing skills. Whoops my bad, I was a bit excited and shocked to say the least. You obviously care what I think bc you responded. Hmmm…Lastly for the man who wanted to jump all pc on me…when was the last time you filled out a form that had “European American” in place of white, not alongside but in place of.
February 17th, 2007 at 11:02 am
Wow, people are going to stop donating over a freaking SYMBOL?
What about all the great research that goes on at the U of I? That actually helps people?
February 17th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
Well, some people would actually not come here over a freaking symbol. I’d say that’s pretty ridiculous.
February 17th, 2007 at 10:31 pm
Here is the point for dissapointed and Kathleen. It is a tradition that belongs to all of us not just a few. You will learn if and when you both leave your protective wombs of college life how important traditions are. Yes, I also with withhold my money because that is the only way I have of fighting this. You both are getting the best education my tax payor money can provide so stop your sniffling, grow up and remember in this country (for now) the majority rules.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:19 am
I’m on your side, man.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:31 am
Come on guys, this is no great victory for a “small, vocal minority”, as some of you have put it. The BOT did not address the ‘anti’-chief side’s concerns regarding the underlying discriminatory nature of the chief, nor the hostile and abusive atmosphere that many feel has been created on campus, due not only to the chief, but to the inaction of the BOT as well. The BOT did this for MONEY, and unless the retirement is accompanied by some serious attention to university policy and campus atmosphere, in the end the retirement means very little. To the ‘pro’-chief side, yes, you’re losing the chief, but surely your UIUC experience has to be more than just that. There are plenty of other traditions on campus and plenty of ways to build community that don’t involve the portrayal (honorable or otherwise) of a minority group who has had its various peoples and traditions systematically assulted by the majority group of this country.
February 19th, 2007 at 1:06 am
The ‘victim groups” and their partners, the NCAA, the national media, the feel good good liberalsand those afraid of being called “insensitive, bigots, racists” have won and the Chief is gone. For those of us who saw the good in the Chief, we will miss him. I personally live in California and haven’t seen the Chief in 20 years so it won’t be much of a physical loss. The loss is one of respect …and hope… for our legal system, for my University, for the press, for the Native Americans and for the feel good liberals involved in this politically correct decision.
It seems that the anti -Chief people are of many minds and goals. Some believe that this is really a good thing and that good will come of it, at least for Native Americans. Some of the “liberal do gooders’ who feel morally superior for having supported the “politically correct” point of view are satisfied to just be able to say “yes, I fought to have that symbol of racism removed”. The true right or wrong of the issue is far less important than being found on the perceived “correct” side of the issue. Another group of anti-chiefers don’t believe and never have believed that banning Chief Illiniwek would result in a significant improvement in the lives of Native Americans. These people are more concerned with revenge and general power plays than real improvement. They will shortly be looking for their next target and the list of targeted issues will never end as their anger and bitterness towards the European Americans will never end.
So, what good, if any has come out of this? Not justice. with the victory of a minority of “offended people” over the right of “freedom of expression”? First, Chief Illiniwek was never “abusive or offensive” to anyone with normal levels of sensitivity. Many Native Americans are so full of bitterness and anger that they become hypersensitive and single minded in their determination to find insensitivity and offensiveness in every word thought or deed of the white population. For the ones who truly were offended, I once again say…..the world is full of things that offend me but I don’t feel that I have the right to intervene and take others rights away to impose on everyone my “opinion” that something is offensive. This whole concept that a person’s opinion about another person’s expression in dance, writing, art etc. should trump the artist’s right to express them or the audience’s right to be entertained is a dangerous street to go down. Since offendedness is a matter of “opinion”, not fact, and for every action and deed there is someone who is offended, there is no end to how much power and control the offended can amass. It just takes a bully like the NCAA or a misguided judge to take mine or YOUR rights away because some one else (of special status) complains that they are offended.
Maybe this whole thing would have been worth it if at least some understanding and bridge building had come out of it. This is where the battle (getting rid of the Chief) was won by the anti-chief group but the war is being lost. Consider this: Maybe we as a society are too hyper-sensitive and maybe we spend too much time looking for slights, insults especially on the basis of our “victim-group” mentalities. The energy and time would be better spent, bettering ourselves as individuals and building bridges between people based on our common attributes and history rather than our divisions. It is ironic to me that the very individuals that profess they are trying to “fix” problems and heal racial, religious, etc. hostility, are the ones that cant stop stirring the pot, dragging up old wrongs until all we can focus on is how much we cant stand each other
I hear the anti-chief crowd arguing that getting rid of Chief Illiniwek will somehow increase respect for Native Americans. In reality, this whole fight has decreased respect for Native Americans. The fact that the anti-chief crowd chose to name call, vilify their opponents, rely on cheap “victim” excuses, staged riots, and employed other unprofessional tactics such as labeling a proud and decent University as racist has not gone unnoticed by those who heretofore had a great respect for the Native American population. This was a wake up call to those of us who had a lot of respect for historical Native Americans. That wakeup call was to realize that just as we, the living descendents of those who treated the Native Americans so inhumanely, are not our ancestors, the living Native Americans are not their ancestors either. That Native American culture is gone. As much as today’s Native Americans fight to hold onto that image of dignity, self reliance, sacrifice, integrity and courage of the Native Americans of 120 years, the Native Americans of today are as far from those people as the white man is. It is perhaps this loss of their larger than life historic character that is fueling the obsession with controlling the “images” and “symbols” so that they always reflect “positively” on Native Americans (as perceived by Naïve Americans”). I would thing that today’s Native Americans would be more concerned about the loss of the inner spiritual life and value system of their people than about some symbol that offends them. Why worry about the “white college boy” who is attempting to pay honor to Native Americans (even if he fails in THEIR eyes he was not failing in the eyes of the majority) when the whole culture is falling apart? How does “authenticity” and Indian sacred dances and religion figure into the casino life? If Chief Illiniwek is an affront to the sacred life of the Native American, what is the Indian casino that pollutes the sacred shoreline of Lake Superior in Grand Marais? No other group would have been permitted to desecrate that beautiful “sacred” area just to make a few bucks. If the great Chiefs: Crazy Horse, Chief Joseph, Red Cloud, Kicking Bear, Cochise… who faced death, pain, sickness every day in their attempts preserve their way of life, were alive today, would they be proud of how the mighty Native Americans got rid of Chief Illiniwek? OR WOULD THEY BE ASHAMED to see how the courage, pride and honor and dignity of the Native Americans 120 years ago has deteriorated into the petty, whiney, victim and dependent mentality (dependent on giveaway’s and special treatment based on guilt and pity )and money grubbing behavior we see today?
As for the liberals, they have actually won something… a way to feel superior and have their “white guilt” massaged” without really sacrificing or doing.
Sometimes our egos get caught up in “helping” people and we begin to believe they can’t make it without our programs, pity and excuses. Although fighting to get rid of the Chief is a feel good thing for liberals, they are not doing Native Americans any favors by reinforcing their (Native Americans) victim mentality and by reinforcing the idea that something like a dancing historical symbol (even performed by a white college boy) is able to hurt Native Americans or affect their ability to thrive in life. Maybe the best thing we can do for people who have been vicitimized is to reinforce the thought and belief and confidence that they can overcome the past and create a good future and that they have the power, by using their abilities, character, faith, and courage to achieve those dreams, even if the whole world stands against them…
What these liberals and all of us who want to “help” can do rather than battle these paper tigers like the Chief is:” treat all people fairly and look beyond ethnicity to values and behavior. We can acknowledge past wrongs without ruminating on them and without taking or assigning responsibility for these wrongs based on our group status (unless we were personally responsible as individuals.). I intend to do these things despite my frustration and anger at this victim empowered process because I truly want to see “God crown thy good with brotherhood” from sea to shining sea.
February 19th, 2007 at 1:08 am
The Chief was banned because he was perceived to be abusive and generally demeaning to the image of Native Americans (NA’S). To who and how? The answer is clearer if we divide people into three groups. #1) those who heard about the issue but never saw the Chief. How can they find it demeaning if they never saw it? 2.) Actual observers who felt that the performance was demeaning. This group was largely made up, I assume, of NAs and those generally sensitive to NA issues. This group is not likely to change opinions of NAs over a performance that they deem derogatory and non authentic. If they don’t like the performance they can do what most people do with things that offend them, avoid it…3.)Those who watched the performance and enjoyed it and were pro-chief. This group has overwhelming testified that the chiefs performance increased their respect and admiration for NAs. Instead of contributing to an atmosphere of intolerance towards NA the Chiefs performance had the opposite affect on this “impressionable potentially racist” group #3. On the other hand, the removal of the Chief definitely took away a positive symbol of Native Americans in the eyes of those in group three. Further, the undemocratic process by which the Chief was removed and the tactics used by the anti chief crowd definitely resulted in lowered respect and and increased animosity towards NAs by many in groups 3 and 1(who observed the illegitimate process even if they didn’t see the Chief. So in the end hostility and intolerance have actually increased with the banning of the Chief???Do you really think you can disenfranchise 60-80% of the people and not have increased hostilities(that just what we all need)? good job NCAA and intolerant anti-Chiefers AKA “the pot of bitterness stirers”.
. I wonder if it will be worth it however since so many of the give away, special rules like casinos, special treatment like the NCAAs rulings on Chief Illiniwek and preference programs for Native Americans are fueled by guilt and pity for past wrongs. As Native Americans bring more and more “victim checks” to the bank to be cashed the balance in that account is diminishing. It would be wise to spend the balance on something more substantive and profitable than Chief Illiniwek
February 19th, 2007 at 10:46 am
I was a UIUC student for 16 years, on and off and I really enjoyed it. I am naturally fond of the university. It literally made me what I am and supplied me with a very comfortable livelihood. So the UI was a beneficiary of my will.
But no more. Not a cent until the chief returns.
February 20th, 2007 at 9:28 pm
THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE MAKING INSIGNIFICANT COMMENTS ABOUT THE SUPPORTERS OF THE CHIEF ARE THOSE WHO HAVE NEVER EXPERIENCED THE PRIDE THAT COMES ALONG WITH THE CHIEF. IT REPRESENTS A GREAT DEAL OF DIGNITY AND OVERWHELMING PRIDE. AS A FORMER MEMBER OF THE MARCHING ILLINI, I FEEL ESPECIALLY CLOSE TO THE PRIDE CHIEF ILLINIWEK HAS BROUGHT TO ME, MY FAMILY, THE UI BANDS, AND THE UNIVERSITY. PLEASE THINK ABOUT THAT BEFORE YOU MAKE COMMENTS ABOUT A SUBJECT YOU CANNOT EVEN COMPREHEND.
February 25th, 2007 at 12:22 am
I am terribly sad that the Chief has been done away with. I have always seen the Chief as a tribute to Native Americans, a small but significant salute to those who occupied this country before the arrival of the white man. In no way have I ever seen the Chief as derogatory or disrespectful. The University of Illinois is poorer for his loss, as are Native Americans. For who will remember those who have come before, if all symbols and reminders of their existence are banned from popular culture as derogatory?
Some have criticized the argument about the chief as petty and trivial, saying that we have more important things to concentrate on and if the chief is really becoming this divisive an issue, then we should get rid of him just to keep the peace. But the argument about the chief has become more than just a quarrel about a mascot. He has become a symbol in the battle against the inane stupidity of politically correct, a rallying point for those with the spine to say, “We are sorry that you find what we’re doing to be offensive, but that still doesn’t give you the right to interfere.”
To those students whom have protested the chief’s demise: Thank you for standing firm on your opinions despite the decisions of the NCAA, the Board of Trustees, and the minority whom worked to have the Chief abolished. To those alumni whom have decided to stop donations: Thank you for having the courage to put your money where your mouth is. Even if I as a student suffer from your decisions, that is something I am willing to live with if it will help reinstate the chief. The Board of Trustees has already shown itself willing to ignore the majority opinion of the student body, but as their decision has also shown them to be extremely sensitive to their bank account balance, there is perhaps a slim chance that your actions will turn the tide in this issue. To those who oppose the chief: We never meant to offend you, and I fear that in the long run, the decision of the Board of Trustees will do you more harm than good. This issue and its unsatisfactory resolution will only create more anger and resentment against you from the majority you seek to suppress in the name of politically correct.
The death of the Chief is a tragedy. The way the Board of Trustees made their decision smacked of both cowardice and avarice. The way they went about enacting their decision was just plain wrong. And in the end, has anything even been resolved?
Chief Illiniwek
10/30/1926 - 2/21/2007
R.I.P.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:26 am
I actually don’t have anything to say about this. I came here because I wanted to know who I would ask to use the picture at the top of this website. It’s for a website I’m making for school.
August 25th, 2008 at 12:05 am
Is this gonna end someday??
October 12th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
[u]http://5zzz.ru/[/u] - .
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