What losing the Chief means for athletics
Thursday night, breaking news came in about the future of Chief Illiniwek. The rumors that authorities at the University would retire the Chief dance on Friday came mearly hours after the two students who portray the Chief filed suit against the NCAA. There has been several sources who will confirm the report and the future of the Chief looks far from positive.
So when the Chief is retired, as it undoubtedly will be, how will this affect the athletics programs here at Illinois, specifically football, men’s and women’s basketball and volleyball, the events where the Chief perform?
Ummm, how about: not at all?
The only way the Chief can make any difference at Illini games is if the students, alumni and fans let it. If the students organize a massive boycott of basketball games or the Orange Krush says they will sit down for the entire game, then sure, the Chief has greatly affected the teams. Not having homecourt advantage in our own house would definitely make a difference in the result of the game, especially in college basketball when teams feed off their crowd.
But any student fan group or alumni organization that is willing to watch the Illini suffer over the Chief isn’t really a fan at all. Trying to save an arbitrary figure at the cost of the athletic department’s success is, well, completely selfish.
Don’t get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoy the Chief. His halftime dances are always enjoyable and it’s fun to watch the students rally around the team because of it. But watching the Chief always leaves me feeling entertained, never proud or courageous or anything else the Chief is meant to represent. When it comes down to it, the Chief is a show for the fans, albeit a show with immense tradition and deep roots. But I think because it has been here for so long, people are more concerned by what could possibely replace the Chief than the character’s actual dismissal. But schools like Stanford and Syracuse have both found replacements for their “hostile and abusive” masoct that, in time, have down the job. And though the immediate reaction may be an outcry, students who really care about the University will continue to support their athletic program, regardless of who dances during halftime.
What’s worse is the Chief has actually hurt the majority of Illinois athletics. The men’s gymnastics, women’s soccer, men’s tennis and wrestling programs are all perennially nationally ranked. However, none of these highly touted programs have been able to host postseason events since the NCAA ruling. Last season, the women’s soccer team was forced to play in St. Louis for the first tw0 rounds of the NCAA tournament, despite being the second seed in its bracket. Tennis, even with top-notch facilities (and more coming), hasn’t been able to hold NCAA tournament events either.
Both head tennis coach Brad Dancer and head soccer coach Janet Rayfield have spoken to the Daily Illini about how the Chief has negatively affected their programs in terms of not having home court in the post season in addition to hurting their recruiting abilities.
If the Chief retirement doesn’t negatively affect the programs it performs at, but it positively aids other programs, then why keep it around?
The Chief is an arbitrary symbol of the University. We could be the Illinois Cornfields and in ten years true fans will rally around it just as passionately. For students to threaten other students and for alumni to claim they will withhold donations because of a symbol is absolutely insane. The University was right to get rid of the Chief because a symbol is not worth this much time and energy. It’s definitely not worth sides exchanging death threats. In time, I think most people will realize this and those who don’t aren’t really fans of the Illinois athletics, they’re fans of a dance.
February 16th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
Well I DO feel PROUD. And I DO feel the LOYALTY. And I DO feel the RESPECT. And I DO feel the SPIRIT of being an Illini.
And now some crapbag, ignorant morons just took that away from me. Screw them.
I’m a fan too. I’m a huge fan. And now, I’m not gonna make the players pay for the decisions of a**clown administrators, but that doesn’t mean it’s not gonna make a difference.
It’s a spirit, and atmosphere. It’s not something you can describe with words. And it’s not something we can just pretend we can keep either. They took it away.
This anti-Chief agenda from the DI is sickening. You don’t make this report neutral because you say you enjoy the entertainment of the Chief. The very fact that you lump him in as a hostile and abusive mascot shows where you stand. And it’s ignorant.
This is such BS.
February 16th, 2007 at 1:26 pm
What losing the Chief means for athletics
February 16th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
I completely feel for those who support the Chief in a way that rallies around school spirit. I, too, came to this school as Pro-Chief and do not think that his dance is “hostile and abusive” as the NCAA has said.
However, the Chief has been hurting Illinois athletics since the NCAA deemed it inappropriate, and that is not good for the University and the atletic department in its entirity.
Furthermore, when threates are exchanged between Pro-Chief and Anit-Chief protestors, then the issue has gotten way out of hand and needs to be ended. And it’s funny that you call the DI Anti-Chief because last week we were called Pro-Chief racists.
Finally, the blog was never meant to be neutral—thats why it’s a blog. The DI Sports Desk is three editors, not writers, so any opinion we have is not included in the content of the paper.
February 16th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
That’s all true about it hurting with the NCAA’s ruling, but the NCAA was wrong to make that ruling. Not only is it incorrect, they don’t have they kind of authority.
The University is weak to cave and not fight against that injustice.
And yes the issue needed to be resolved, but ending the Chief wasn’t the only wa to do that. And the threats now will be more than ever.
And that’s true you don’t have to be neutral. That’s fine. I’m just saying you’re not. And I’m not sure who called the DI out for being pro-Chief. Other than allowing occassional guest editorials that are pro-Chief, everything regarding the Chief in the paper is negatively slanted against the Chief.
February 16th, 2007 at 2:30 pm
As a graduate of Penn State and a Big 10 brother of the Fighting Illini it is with great sadness and trepidation that I read of the demise of the school mascot, Chief Illiniwek.
It’s even more troubling that the University has caved in to the liberal politically correct forces at the NCAA. Knowing what the Nittany Lion means to me causes me top have great empathy for all Illini fans, alumni and, especially, the current students.
My daughter recently graduated from Florida State. FSU didn’t waste a minute telling the NCAA where to get off. They get to keep Chief Osceola and his horse, Renegade.
To Illini faithful everywhere, your university is letting you down big time. I wouldn’t stand for it!! Best wishes for any and all effeorts you may make to get this decision reversed. I hope to see Chief Illiniwek at Beaver Stadium during the 2008 season.
February 16th, 2007 at 2:46 pm
Bill: the difference between Illinois and FSU is that the Native American tribe that is portrayed by FSU, the Seminoles, have come to terms with school and have allowed Chief Osceola to live on. Those who find themeselves in control of the Chief Illiniwek figure no longer support the character.
Justin: I agree with everything you said. The administration has taken the wrong steps in dealing with this issue, choosing to let the issue escalate instead of taking a clear stance, which would have solved everything. To see the Chief go in this manner is shady and inappropriate.
February 16th, 2007 at 3:06 pm
Nobody actually has legit descendence from the Illiniwek tribe though. The Peoria’s claim is very negligible.
It represents us far more than them.
And I’m quite offended that my symbol is gone. But then, I’m white, so I can’t be offended.
February 16th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
Steve,
Congratulations on a thoughtful and mature commentary. You got it exactly right — the Chief is entertainment. And if Justin is a fan only because of the Chief, then he is a Chief fan, not an Illini sports fan.
February 16th, 2007 at 4:27 pm
Justin - There is no “Illiniwek tribe”, the Illiniwek were a nation of multiple tribes that included the Peoria. After the Indian Removal Act of 1830, the members of the Illiniwek were either killed or relocated. Today, the Peoria are the tribe that has the only remaining decedents of that nation of tribes. Please read a history book before deciding who can and cannot claim ancestries.
February 16th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
Yes, keeping the Chief on since the NCAA’s ruling has hurt some sports in terms of holding home postseason events… However, during ZERO of these events did the Chief ever perform or was present. The bulk of this issue is that those who are affected by the Chief - fans of Illinois basketball and football - weren’t effected by the NCAA’s ruling to begin with… With the current NCAA postseason system in place for football, Memorial Stadium will never be host to anything more than a regular season match, and while Assembly Hall is a great venue for regular season Illini basketball, at best, it would likely be host to an NIT game, not an NCAA Tournament series… Long live the Chief.
February 16th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
So Adam, since those other sports aren’t as popular they don’t matter? I can think of some athletes who very much disagree with that sentiment. All Illinois sports are to be respected, especially ones that have been extremely successful lately and in years past (Gymnastics, soccer, tennis) but haven’t gotten any of the fandom that a 2 win football team or a possibly NIT basketball team receive.
February 16th, 2007 at 5:22 pm
*LOUD, SUSTAINED APPLAUSE*
Congratulations on a brilliant blog post. This should be in print.
February 16th, 2007 at 6:19 pm
I agree with most of what my colleague, Mr. Contorno, has to say, except for the last paragraph. He writes:
“The Chief is an arbitrary symbol of the University. We could be the Illinois Cornfields and in ten years true fans will rally around it just as passionately.”
That’s just not fair. I am not pro-chief, and I am not anti-chief. I understand both sides and have come to be able to argue both sides equally well. But to trivialize the situation as you have is not appropriate.
The Chief means something different to everyone. That’s the joy of a school’s symbol: what it brings out in an individual. For some it’s a sense of pride, for others a sense of loyalty and so on. This is what the Chief meant to thousands. However, for thousands of others, the Chief was a symbol of racism, hatred, and oppression. It was this trivialization of Native Americans that was offensive to people — and it is this same trivialization that I am trying to point out here.
How can you say students will become fond of a new mascot? It’s going to be a long, long time before anyone forgets the Chief. A tradition is a difficult thing to take away from people. It’s not like throwing out a ripped pair of jeans and buying a replacement pair — which is the feeling I get from your post. A tradition defines a culture. The Chief tradition defined so many people at the University.
How can you possibly understand what it means to lose that? I certainly don’t, and I don’t pretend to.
February 16th, 2007 at 7:20 pm
First off, I’m a fan of the Chief and of Illini sports. To me they’re one in the same. Something going to be greatly missing now. But I already said I’d be at the games. It’s not in me not to. (Just like I can’t get myself to not buy football tickets next year even though the DIA is screwing us over with the seating.) Don’t tell me just because I’m uber pissed about the Chief being gone that I’m not also a fan of the University and the teams.
As for the history of the Illiniwek Confederation, trust me, I know it all. When I said tribe, I mistyped, I know it was a Confederation. Don’t tell me to read a history book. I know as much or more than you about the situation.
The point is the Peoria Tribe’s claim of descendent’s is so weak that I don’t understand allowing them to make the decision. The Illini Confederation was something like 98% killed off. A couple of stragglers merged with a new Peoria tribe. I’d venture to say there’s only a few handfuls of remaining people left who have that Illiniwek blood in them. That’s simply not enough to be deciding a claim.
Rather, I’d argue that I’m the descendents of the Illiniwek. By blood? Of course not. But it doesn’t have to be by blood. It’s my Illinois heritage. And that’s what this is all about. It’s not so much that we were ever trying to do the few remaining Illiniwek a favor, it’s that we were trying to embrace a part of our own past. Our past as students and citizens of Illinois.
But for some reason if has to be blood. Which to me is as racist as anything.
February 16th, 2007 at 10:51 pm
No, you are confused. You’ve allowed yourself to be confused by the anti-Chief rhetoric.
The Chief has not caused the university any harm. The whiny, politically-correct, anti-Chief minority, with the full backing of the NCAA, are who has caused the harm.
The programs you cite weren’t hurt by any University decision. They were hurt when the NCAA turned their Moral Police on the school. It was the NCAA who decided to impose their ‘ethnic cleansing’ on the U of I.
February 16th, 2007 at 11:19 pm
FABULOUS JUSTIN… fabulous statement. Many come from a heritage without being blood descendents.
FIRST AND FOREMOST, the chief isn’t the one HURTING Illini athletics… that’s such a pompous and scapegoat remark!!! It’s very shallow-minded. Dig a little deeper. The people who decided that the Chief is “hostile and abusive” are the ones who caused this rift. ENOUGH SAID.
Also, I’m sure the university can expect their alumni donations to sharply drop in the next years… I’ve talked to a handful of alum who say they’ll never donate another dime to this school for dealing with this the way they did. If the big-wigs at this school really wanted to keep the Chief, they could have dug a little deeper into their hearts (and pockets) to make it happen.
As my uncle (a DEVOUT alum) told me today:
“I find it amusingly ironic that this decision comes down at the same time 2 of our basketball players are announced as out for the remainder of the year (Carlwell because of his injuries, and Jamar because of what sounds like a pending driving under the influence charge). Remember that if Illinois does not make the NCAA Tournament, we are pretty much a lock for the NIT, but with the chief in place, we would not be allowed to host NIT games (i.e. make more money!). Is it coincidence that the University removes the chief just as our chances of being NIT bound increase?
Doubt it.”
GREAT JOB U OF I… thanks for taking away this wonderful tradition of honor, loyalty and excellence. If the tribes (and others) that are complaining really think the chief is malicious, they should come see his final performance to see how he brings us all together (students to farmers to businessmen to children to elderly): arm in arm… swaying back and forth… singing with PRIDE and HONORING the university we attend and the tradition we greatfully carry on each time we HAIL TO THE ORANGE. For those few seconds, we aren’t strangers to one another… the person next to us shares that same passion for the Illini Community. Sure, we will prevail and life will go on and someone can come up with another way to celebrate U of I Loyalty, but it’ll never measure up to what the Chief brought to our hearts everytime he stepped onto the field or court. I feel bad for those who never got to experience the electricity of his performances. I’ve never watched him without having shivers run down my spine and I’ve ALWAYS walked away with a strong sense of pride in this Illinois community.
I don’t think there will be a dry eye in the Hall next Wednesday. We aren’t losing a Mascot… I don’t think many ever thought of him as a mascot. Mascots rile up the crowds during games… a cheerleader in costume if you will. The Chief doesn’t rile us up for games… he helps us remember why we are all there: to celebrate community and everything that community entails. We are losing this gathering of community and spirit for this great school. The Chief can never be replaced and will never be forgotten and I don’t think that this will go down without a fight. We’ll fight for the Chief… we’ll fight for the great state of Illinois’ Chief… if we don’t we’ll be committing a great deal of injustice to this state. The Chief is meant to HONOR and CELEBRATE the Native American Heritage of Illinois, not demean it. But I guess there always has to be something to complain about.
SAVE THE HONOR.SAVE THE TRADITION.SAVE THE CHIEF.
February 17th, 2007 at 7:39 am
chief illiniwek wants to stay.
February 17th, 2007 at 8:31 am
Frankly, some things are more important than athletics … like standing up for what’s right in the face of a mindless, rude, boorish minority. I am a big fan of the Illini, but if athletic events are boycotted because of this decision, I will be the first to support the boycotters. Sure, its too bad for the athletes, but simply accepting this decision is not proper in this situation.
February 17th, 2007 at 9:36 am
I’m an alumni and will now support Illinois sports and donate to the university BECAUSE they retired the Chief. Eighty years of white boys dancing Sioux dances for rowdy fans does not honor anybody. If it does, why are we ignorant of Illinois history? Florida State educates its students on the history and legacy of the Seminoles, and has Seminole support. Illinois did/does nothing of the sort, and has no support from Illiniwek descendants or the Sioux.
Here’s an apt analogy. Imagine if a university in Syria decided to honor the Christians who once lived in their region by having someone dressed as Jesus or the Pope come out and do a ‘blessing dance’. He could throw holy water on the fans and the band would play ‘Onward Christian Soldiers’. Only the fans are all Muslims, cheering and thinking that they are somehow honoring Christians with their “tradition”.
So get over it. In a few years once this dies down maybe we can have another, less controversial mascot and a new tradition can start. And Bill, as an Illinois alumni who’s now at Penn State, I look forward to the day when an Illinois football team with traditions all of us can support comes and upsets the Nittany Lions. Now that, not some dance by a kid in a headress, will make me proud to be an Illini.
February 17th, 2007 at 11:22 am
If the primary offensive characteristic about the Chief was that he was a “white boy dancing Sioux dances,” then to be consistent, I trust the University will also soon prohibit:
– Kabuki performed by any other than those of Japanese heritage;
– Shakespeare performed by any other than those of British descent, except where the Bard stipulated otherwise;
– and certainly, any performance of the abominable “Wizard of Oz” adaptation known as “The Wiz” — because obviously, L. Frank Baum did not intend for African-Americans to portray Dorothy, the Scarecrow, Lion, Tin Woodman, etc.
Are these three items (especially the latter) silly, ludicrous, even racist? Quite likely. But no sillier than the ash-canning of the Chief.
February 17th, 2007 at 11:27 am
Well, Justin, if you claim to know so much about the Illini, then you’ll know that the Illini were an Algonquin speaking Woodland Indian people who looked nothing like the Sioux Indian that some kid impersonates at halftime. It makes no sense to dress some guy up like a Sioux Indian to “honor” the memory of the Illini. In fact, if you actually knew your history, you’d know that the Illini were virtually wiped out by a confederation of Plains Indians, including the Sioux. So how in the world does dressing some student like a Sioux (the mortal enemy of the Illini) “honor” the Illini? It would be like dressing some guy up as a Nazi to honor the Jews. KNOW YOUR HISTORY, Justin, before making a idiot of yourself online.
February 17th, 2007 at 12:00 pm
Jena, you are so articulate I could never imagine being able to put my thoughts and feelings into words any better than you have. Thank you.
To those who relish in the University’s decision to drop the Chief, let me give you some additional history. Lester Leutwieler of Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity created the Chief approximately 80 years ago as a way to honor those who first lived in this area. It was also hoped to be a way to bring the student body to rally around a positive focal point. It was never meant to be a mascot and was always treated with honor and pride by those who became Chief. During the World War II years there were women who held the honor.
Even the qualifications of who became a Chief were far more than who had the best dance routine. I believe that originally one had to be an Eagle Scout to even tryout. Not that attaining the level of Eagle Scout should matter to the world.
During my time at the University I was an SAE member and we had one of our members trying out. On the committee to pick the new Chief were many former alumni Chiefs, including our member’s father and brother, both former Chiefs. After all of the applicants were evaluated our member lost out to another student, whose dance routine and qualifications impressed all of the committee to pick him instead. That’s how seriously the alumni Chiefs’ took the matter of selecting a new Chief! They would pick the best applicant even if it meant doing that instead of picking a family member.
The Chief was never a mascot, he was a positive symbol of pride and honor and fellowship. I cannot imagine how that will ever be duplicated in the near future.
Life will go on and we will all find our ways to cope, but the University made a very serious mistake here and will pay dearly for it in the future. I hope that all those who were in favor of dropping the Chief will now dig down and begin to double their donations to make up for all of the lost future revenue.
Also, I now demand and expect that ALL of our athletic teams will now become the NCAA champions in their respective sports now, due to the fact that they no longer have any excuses of not being able to attract top talent because of what an immature 18 year old prospective top athlete, might have thought about our Chief.
And, since we were told that top professors were leaving the University in protest over the Chief issue and that new, top talent could not be recruited for the same reason, we will now become the most highly regarded University in the world and professors will be knocking down the doors to teach our young charges here. And, because the Chief is gone, these new professors will want to teach for a pay scale that is less than the going rate in order to show their profound desire to now teach at such a forward thinking, open minded, University.
Finally, thanks to the University’s decision, our state of Illinois taxes and fees will be going up and our University will begin to lose programs due to the loss of alumni donations. You see, it’s the older; more well heeled alums that tend to donate the most money, not the younger, less wealthy, more politically correct crowd, who tend not to donate much in the first place. Only a third of the cost of educating a student comes from tuition (which will also be going up), the remainder comes from alumni donations and state of Illinois tax revenues. Well, with less money coming in from donations, that shortfall will have to be made up from higher tuition and higher taxes. Both of which, I am sure, will be gladly paid for by the people who wanted to get rid of the Chief.
Maybe we should begin the healing process by trying to think of appropriate new mascots and nicknames for our sports teams and student body. As for the sports teams I think the “Fighting Illiterates” might be fitting due to their constant high level of academic success while playing on our sports teams or maybe the “Weak Wimpy Perennial Losers” to capture their knack for constantly being in the hunt for national titles. We might even want to consider the “Fighting Doormats” or “Predictable Laughingstocks” for their fine execution on the field or court, year in and year out.
As for the student body, instead of the Fighting Illini, we might want to consider “Spineless, bleeding-heart liberal, politically correct, tree hugging, apologists” in order to try and not offend any possible group either currently or in the future.
I have supported, attended, graduated from and motivated my children to want to attend the University of Illinois. My financial and emotional support goes back more than forty years. I have found memories of my days there and the people I encountered. The politically correct, bleeding-heart liberal crowd will never be able (thankfully) to attack or remove those memories. For that, I was always be grateful.
RIP Chief, you will be missed!
February 17th, 2007 at 12:10 pm
The victim industry strikes again. Don’t even try to understand what it feels like to be a white man who is constantly told he should feel guilty. If you are not a white male, you cannot understand, and you have no right to criticize me for my perspective.
February 17th, 2007 at 12:56 pm
To Jonathan-
Nobody pays big money to see gymnastics or soccer or tennis, those sports suck! The money is in the big three, Football, Basketball and Baseball, for real man!, for real!
February 17th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
Truly a dark day for the Illini. Not only that it was done but how it was done. I believe and hope that the BOD greatly underestimated the student and alumni support for this revered tradition. I would urge everyone to to speak with the only thing that the BOD holds sacred, money. Stop your $$ support until the BOD resigns and there is more dialog on how this issue can be resolved with dignity. Students and alumni, do not go into the last 2 basketball games until halftime. Cancel your season tickets. Email the gov. to express your disgust with his BOD appointments. Do it now!!
February 17th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
Robert - Those are good ideas to express our sentiment, but I’ll argue that we shouldn’t stop there. There is a lot of evidence that IL State Senate President Emil Jones provided pressure on the University Board of Trustees. Let State Senator Jones know how you feel, and while you’re at it, pass the word along to the rest of the IL Democratic Party and your own local state Senator and Representative.
Get the address of your local town newspaper, radio stations, television stations, and let them know how you feel about the decision.
And lastly, I strongly advocate asking Congress (Senators Obama and Durbin and your Representative) to launch an investigation into the financial links between the NCAA and legalized gambling, specifically the NCAA connection with CBS Sportsline. If the NCAA is willing to accept millions of dollars from CBS Sportsline, maybe it’s time to end the tax-exempt status the NCAA has enjoyed.
And if the NCAA expects to continue down this path where it puts its politics out in front of everything else, then maybe it’s time we require them to register as a Political Action Committee (PAC) and regulate them as such.
February 17th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
“To Jonathan-
Nobody pays big money to see gymnastics or soccer or tennis, those sports suck! The money is in the big three, Football, Basketball and Baseball, for real man!, for real!” First of all, if you want to get technical, no one goes to the baseball games ever (including the Chief), so apparently that’s another sport that “doesn’t matter”. And just because you think “those sports suck” does not mean that those sports are not important to your fellow students. Those fellow students deserve your respect for the hours of commitment they make to their sport just to represent the University of Illinois in the best way possible. You assertions and cowardly concealment of your name show that you don’t deserve the name University of Illinois on your diploma.
February 17th, 2007 at 8:18 pm
T Allen. I do know my history. I didn’t make an idiot of myself online.
I know all the crap you said. And it just doesn’t matter.
People seem to get tied up on everything not being 100% accurate. Why? The Chief did not honor or acknowledge just one group of people. And in honoring and acknowleding more than one group of people, you have to pick and choose what elements to incorporate. And the end result will be a grouping of those elements.
And that automatically prevents it from being 100% accurate. But it certainly does not prevent it from being honorable.
I’m sorry you can’t pull your head out and understand that. Also, it’s nice of you to sling around insults online. Shows a great deal of maturity.
February 17th, 2007 at 8:26 pm
Also, as for flipping out about a “white boy” always portraying the Chief…
That comment is (1) borderline racist in and of itself, and (2) blatantly incorrect.
Two Hispanics and one woman have portrayed the Chief.
And I can gurantee you that had an Asian man or woman, a black man or woman, American Indian man or woman, or any other race of man or woman excelled as the best portrayer of the Chief in the tryouts, than they would have been the one performing.
But I guess it’d be an honor if it was an untrained American Indian stumbling over themselves. It’s obviously just racist if a white man spends time to learn the dance and excels at it.
What a load of crap.
February 17th, 2007 at 8:28 pm
Also, to add on to thing the NCAA should be investigated for…
How about thier monopoly on postseason tournaments?
A few years ago the owners of the NIT were prepared to bring up charges of a monopoly against the NCAA.
How’d the NCAA take care of that?
They bought the NIT.
And just like that there were no more mentions of a monopoly.
I couldn’t believe it. That sounds like the epitamy of a monopoly if you ask me.
February 17th, 2007 at 11:20 pm
What is everyone’s problem? Are you all so hard up for “tradition” that it doesn’t matter how many conflicts are caused to maintain it? All of your “loyalty” and “honor” and “pride” are clearly being placed in a SYMBOL that someone MADE UP to get people to PAY MONEY to watch games. They’re not real. If this is all you have in life–you’re so deprived that this is a major source of your pleasure and identity–then I think you have larger issues to deal with. The fact is, the divisiveness, hate, and overall militance that this SYMBOL is beginning to cause isn’t worth any of these other things. Get over it. Find something real in your own life that you can put all your “loyalty,” “honor,” and “pride” into. Stop insisting that these things should come at the cost of other people’s feelings and ideas. And maybe we should think about the fact that if you feel as though YOU”RE being robbed of tradition–imagine what some of the Native Americans must have felt/feel like to see their traditions and ways of life continually mocked, desecrated, and taken over by the white majority. Find a real problem to get passionate about. Give it up. No one should feel bad for you.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:52 am
Justin –
You lose. I win. The Chief is gone. Period.
To “honor” the Illini by dressing a kid up as a Sioux Indian, their mortal enemy, just proves how ignorant the Chief supporters like you really are.
Know your history. Then post. Until then, you’re a proven idiot.
You lose. I win. The Chief is gone. Forever.
Bye, bye.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:56 am
I didn’t read all of the postings so if other people have said what I am about to say I apologize for the redundancy.
Maybe someone can educate me on the difference between a white male portraying our Chief and someone portraying the Seminole Chief at FSU.
Many posts mention that FSU has a “working relationship” with the Seminoles and therefore it is okay for them to continue their tradition. That relationship is not based on merit and education but rather based on money given directly the Seminoles. The Seminoles did not approach FSU and ask them to please take their name. It was all about the money.
People also commented that the dress worn by the Chief is Sioux, well the dress of the FSU chief is from the Plains Indians not from Florida Seminoles. The Seminoles didn’t use eagle feather head dresses down to the ground, they focused on beadwork.
I am neither anti or pro chief. I would lean towards anti chief only because it is a non Native American doing the dance. The University could, I guess, ask a Native American to perform the dance and it could solve lots of problems. We would still have the Chief, it couldn’t be considered hostile because it is being performed by a Native American and no love lost.
The funny thing is the people who get hurt in this are Native Americans. To develop a working relationship with the Sioux, the University founded the Native American house, offered scholarships to people of Native American Descent and was in the process of working on a program that would bring Native Americans to U of I and provide them with free education with the understanding that they would go back to their reservation and help it develop. But what happens now? If donors really do cut funding to the University what programs will the cut?
To be honest there are plenty of names in sports that should be changed on the basis of “hostile and abusive”. I am surprised people don’t complain about the Spartans. They were a culture based on slavery and war. The Fighting Irish is in reference to the stereotype of Irish immigrants fighting.
Sure, take the chief, but I ask this, how is the imagery of the chief hostile and abusive? Why can’t the University keep the logo? Can someone please tell me what is offensive about having that picture? The logo is not a white person with paint on their face. It isn’t cartoonish. I mean I see plenty of people with Bob Marley T-shirts and no calls them racist for wearing having an African American on their shirt.
I would love to write more, but this is too long as is, please feel free to pick this apart, I don’t mind, I’ll probably have a good answer to back it up.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:57 am
broker24: You didn’t win. We all lost. You just haven’t figured it out yet.
February 18th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
Broker24-
You’re ignorant. You’re a jerk.
You clearly don’t know anything about what makes up the tradition and what makes it special, and you clearly don’t care to understand.
A proven idiot? Um. Really? What proof do you have?
I’m 64 times the person you’ll ever be. I’d say I win.
(Not smart person)
February 19th, 2007 at 12:03 am
The ‘victim groups” and their partners, the NCAA, the national media, the feel good good liberalsand those afraid of being called “insensitive, bigots, racists” have won and the Chief is gone. For those of us who saw the good in the Chief, we will miss him. I personally live in California and haven’t seen the Chief in 20 years so it won’t be much of a physical loss. The loss is one of respect …and hope… for our legal system, for my University, for the press, for the Native Americans and for the feel good liberals involved in this politically correct decision.
It seems that the anti -Chief people are of many minds and goals. Some believe that this is really a good thing and that good will come of it, at least for Native Americans. Some of the “liberal do gooders’ who feel morally superior for having supported the “politically correct” point of view are satisfied to just be able to say “yes, I fought to have that symbol of racism removed”. The true right or wrong of the issue is far less important than being found on the perceived “correct” side of the issue. Another group of anti-chiefers don’t believe and never have believed that banning Chief Illiniwek would result in a significant improvement in the lives of Native Americans. These people are more concerned with revenge and general power plays than real improvement. They will shortly be looking for their next target and the list of targeted issues will never end as their anger and bitterness towards the European Americans will never end.
So, what good, if any has come out of this? Not justice. with the victory of a minority of “offended people” over the right of “freedom of expression”? First, Chief Illiniwek was never “abusive or offensive” to anyone with normal levels of sensitivity. Many Native Americans are so full of bitterness and anger that they become hypersensitive and single minded in their determination to find insensitivity and offensiveness in every word thought or deed of the white population. For the ones who truly were offended, I once again say…..the world is full of things that offend me but I don’t feel that I have the right to intervene and take others rights away to impose on everyone my “opinion” that something is offensive. This whole concept that a person’s opinion about another person’s expression in dance, writing, art etc. should trump the artist’s right to express them or the audience’s right to be entertained is a dangerous street to go down. Since offendedness is a matter of “opinion”, not fact, and for every action and deed there is someone who is offended, there is no end to how much power and control the offended can amass. It just takes a bully like the NCAA or a misguided judge to take mine or YOUR rights away because some one else (of special status) complains that they are offended.
Maybe this whole thing would have been worth it if at least some understanding and bridge building had come out of it. This is where the battle (getting rid of the Chief) was won by the anti-chief group but the war is being lost. Consider this: Maybe we as a society are too hyper-sensitive and maybe we spend too much time looking for slights, insults especially on the basis of our “victim-group” mentalities. The energy and time would be better spent, bettering ourselves as individuals and building bridges between people based on our common attributes and history rather than our divisions. It is ironic to me that the very individuals that profess they are trying to “fix” problems and heal racial, religious, etc. hostility, are the ones that cant stop stirring the pot, dragging up old wrongs until all we can focus on is how much we cant stand each other
I hear the anti-chief crowd arguing that getting rid of Chief Illiniwek will somehow increase respect for Native Americans. In reality, this whole fight has decreased respect for Native Americans. The fact that the anti-chief crowd chose to name call, vilify their opponents, rely on cheap “victim” excuses, staged riots, and employed other unprofessional tactics such as labeling a proud and decent University as racist has not gone unnoticed by those who heretofore had a great respect for the Native American population. This was a wake up call to those of us who had a lot of respect for historical Native Americans. That wakeup call was to realize that just as we, the living descendents of those who treated the Native Americans so inhumanely, are not our ancestors, the living Native Americans are not their ancestors either. That Native American culture is gone. As much as today’s Native Americans fight to hold onto that image of dignity, self reliance, sacrifice, integrity and courage of the Native Americans of 120 years, the Native Americans of today are as far from those people as the white man is. It is perhaps this loss of their larger than life historic character that is fueling the obsession with controlling the “images” and “symbols” so that they always reflect “positively” on Native Americans (as perceived by Naïve Americans”). I would thing that today’s Native Americans would be more concerned about the loss of the inner spiritual life and value system of their people than about some symbol that offends them. Why worry about the “white college boy” who is attempting to pay honor to Native Americans (even if he fails in THEIR eyes he was not failing in the eyes of the majority) when the whole culture is falling apart? How does “authenticity” and Indian sacred dances and religion figure into the casino life? If Chief Illiniwek is an affront to the sacred life of the Native American, what is the Indian casino that pollutes the sacred shoreline of Lake Superior in Grand Marais? No other group would have been permitted to desecrate that beautiful “sacred” area just to make a few bucks. If the great Chiefs: Crazy Horse, Chief Joseph, Red Cloud, Kicking Bear, Cochise… who faced death, pain, sickness every day in their attempts preserve their way of life, were alive today, would they be proud of how the mighty Native Americans got rid of Chief Illiniwek? OR WOULD THEY BE ASHAMED to see how the courage, pride and honor and dignity of the Native Americans 120 years ago has deteriorated into the petty, whiney, victim and dependent mentality (dependent on giveaway’s and special treatment based on guilt and pity )and money grubbing behavior we see today?
As for the liberals, they have actually won something… a way to feel superior and have their “white guilt” massaged” without really sacrificing or doing.
Sometimes our egos get caught up in “helping” people and we begin to believe they can’t make it without our programs, pity and excuses. Although fighting to get rid of the Chief is a feel good thing for liberals, they are not doing Native Americans any favors by reinforcing their (Native Americans) victim mentality and by reinforcing the idea that something like a dancing historical symbol (even performed by a white college boy) is able to hurt Native Americans or affect their ability to thrive in life. Maybe the best thing we can do for people who have been vicitimized is to reinforce the thought and belief and confidence that they can overcome the past and create a good future and that they have the power, by using their abilities, character, faith, and courage to achieve those dreams, even if the whole world stands against them…
What these liberals and all of us who want to “help” can do rather than battle these paper tigers like the Chief is:” treat all people fairly and look beyond ethnicity to values and behavior. We can acknowledge past wrongs without ruminating on them and without taking or assigning responsibility for these wrongs based on our group status (unless we were personally responsible as individuals.). I intend to do these things despite my frustration and anger at this victim empowered process because I truly want to see “God crown thy good with brotherhood” from sea to shining sea.
February 19th, 2007 at 12:03 pm
I am never going to understand it. It is totally pointless to argue anymore. I am Pro-Chief, but like i said, there is nothing we can do anymore. This University has abandoned the students for the possible monetary benefits a few tournaments could bring. If any of you care to watch the game on wednesday, The Orange Krush and I might possibly sit. It is such a hard time to sit quiet while your team is playing, but there are some causes that are worth fighting for. Did any of you know that students are now prohibited from coming to the games in the Chief outfit? So besides stealing our mascot and the symbol of our pride, we are now not even allowed to dress like our famous mascot. The University is opening up a can of worms by now restricting dress to games. This controversy is only going to get worse from here on out and I cannot begin to say how upset I am that we have succumb to the NCAA.
LONG LIVE THE CHIEF
jr
February 21st, 2007 at 11:05 am
TRIBES
A SPIRIT CAME TO ME IN A DREAM
TOLD ME HE WAS THE OLDEST OF THE ILLINI TEAM
A SPIRITUAL WITNESS OF THE STARVED ROCK HOLOCAUST
WHERE HIS CHILREN’S CHILDREN WERE SLAUGHTERED IN THE FROST
ANOTHER TRIBE HAD WIPED THEIR CULTURE FROM THIS LAND
LONG GONE, LONG FORGOTTEN, NEVER TO BE SEEN AGAIN
ANOTHER IN A LONG, LONG LIST OF VICTIMS LOST TO DIVERSITY
BECAUSE THEY DARE THINK FOR THEMSELVES INSTEAD OF BOWING ON THEIR KNEE
HE TOLD ME THAT SOCIAL ELITISTS WERE ALWAYS AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS PLOT
CONSTANTLY PREACHING DISSENTION, EVER STIRRING THE POT
SELF-IMPORTANT PEOPLE WITH PSEUDO SCIENTIFIC DEGREES
PONTIFICATING ALL INCLUSIVENESS, FOR YOU AND FOR ME
WHILE ALWAYS STANDING ABOVE US, AND ALWAYS LOOKING DOWN
THEY TELL US HOW TO THINK AND SALUTE THEM IN THEIR GOLDEN CROWN
EQUALITY THEY RANT, IS THE ULTIMATE GOAL.
THEM UP ABOVE AND ALL OF YOU DOWN BELOW
HE TOLD ME THAT ALL OF OUR ELDERS ONCE WERE MEMBERSOF GREAT TRIBES
BUT ONE BY ONE THESE TRIBES CAPITULATED THRU DECEIT, LIES, AND BRIBES
GONE MISSING, CULTURALLY ERASED FOREVER FROM THIS LAND
POLITICAL CORRECTNESS BURIED THEM DEEP BENEATH THE SAND
WE THE ILLINI, CHOSE A FAR DIFFERENT PATH
WE KEPT OUR SOUL AND SUFFERED THE ULTIMATE WRATH
IMAGINE HOW WE FELT WHEN A GROUP OF STUDENTS SET THAT SOUL FREE
WHEN THEY ADOPTED AND REVERED OUR NAME AT THE LOCAL UNIVERSITY
OH THE ROAR AND EXULTATION THAT A HAIFTIME DANCE BRINGS
LIFTS OUR COLLECTIVE SPIRIT HIGHER THAN ON AN EAGLE’S WINGS
DECADES OF ADORATION AND TRADITION NOW HAVE PAST
ONCE AGAIN THE ELITISTS’ SPELL HAS BEEN CAST
THEY WANT YOU TO BELIEVE THAT WRONG IS RIGHT
PSYCHOBABBLE AND GUILT HIDE THE TRUTH FROM YOUR SIGHT
ELITISTS STOLE YOUR TRIBE FROM YOUR ANCESTORS MANY MOONS AGO
DON’T LET THEM TAKE YOUR ADOPTED ONE, ALONG WITH PART OF YOUR SOUL
RAJA
July 16th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
This is exactly what I expected to find out after reading the title What losing the Chief means for athletics. Thanks for informative article